Sendoso's Marketing SVP Kacie Jenkins: There Is No Funnel

Transcript

Introduction to Scaling Smarter
 
Hey. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, all you girls, boys, and non binaries out there in startup world. My name is Ron Dawson. I head up brand and content strategy for HubSpot for startups, and I finally have a name for this video series that I've been doing for the past couple of months, scaling smarter.
 
And so we were having conversations with professionals in the worlds of sales and marketing and venture capital. For the past few episodes, I've also been able to do this with my, partner in crime, Ruby. Hey, Ruby. How are you doing?
 
Hi, Ron. We're back.
 
It is yeah. We're back. Ruby heads up LinkedIn for, LinkedIn for startups. And, before we get started before we bring up our guest, Ruby, we have to address the elephant in the room, which is you still have not accepted my LinkedIn invitation to connect. Really? I'm still only a second level connection to you. How is that possible?
 
I'm embarrassed. Honestly, I have not seen it, so I can talk to product. I blame them for the notification error because, of course, Ron, we are even closer than first degree connections after all of the collaboration we've done.
 
It's funny.
 
Glad we're airing this out now.

Chapter
Introducing Kacie Jenkins


Right. Right. On that aside, today, we have on Kacie Jenkins. Hey, Kacie. How are you?
 
I am good. I'm pretty sure that the same thing happened to me, and I had to wait, like, in a waiting list to connect with Ruby. She's very popular.
 
Apparently. Apparently. There there's like a velvet rope to get Yeah. Asked to reconnect Ruby. Right.
 
She's been a while.
 
Meanwhile, I was, like, messaging Casey multiple times being like, please, can you comment on our work because you have such great perspective. So Yeah.
 
Thank you for helping me. I'm I am delighted to be here.
 
Yeah. Well, the reason why we have Casey on and we're talking to her today is because, we did this really cool benchmark guide, which was a report that kind of highlights top metrics from startups from, c to series c, and we got a number of professionals to to give us some commentary on it. And, Casey, you were one of them. You ended up marketing it for Sendoso. Is that correct?
 
That is right. I lead a small and mighty team at Sendoso. We are a gifting and direct mail, platform for companies that, are looking to supercharge their, full buying journey and book more meetings, and accelerate their deal cycles and forge stronger, connections and multithread into accounts in a way that's gonna build really meaningful relationships.
 
I have been a marketing leader for a long, long time, and, I've been at Sentosa for a year and almost a year and a half. And, I've been in both b to b, b to c, and, sat sort of on, different sides of of how we think about marketing in different industries. And, so I I think I have an interesting perspective that might be a little bit different than someone who's only sat in b to b SaaS, for for their whole career.
 
And if you have the pleasure and honor of being first degree connections with Casey or following her on LinkedIn, you would see she has such a robust perspective, just in the market and industry on measurement, attribution, how sales and marketing teams should be working together. I feel like she's pioneering kind of a lot of the stuff that our insights and research unveiled.
 
I feel like there are a lot of things that Casey's been saying for a very long time. And so it was, like, helpful to hear her weigh in on on the research we were doing. So I'm thrilled to have you here today, Casey. And that's also why we invited you to the series.
 
Thank you.

Chapter
Understanding the Marketing Funnel

 
I wanna kick it off with the with this question, which is, you know, when you think about the funnel, top, middle, and bottom, you know, there are different challenges at each stage of those.
 
And I'm curious, you know, what is your take on what are the biggest challenges at each one of those stages of the funnel and any insights you have on overcoming those respective challenges?
 
Well, I I'm gonna, start by saying I don't actually believe in a funnel.
 
I don't think that's how people buy, and I certainly am nonlinear in my buying decisions.
 
I think we have created a funnel framework because that's the most simple way for us as marketers or as as revenue teams to explain and, understand the buyer journey.
 
But, I think that when we're we're talking about, the challenges at each level, we're really thinking about, and this is my personal perspective, the difficulties of top of funnel, which, you know, by the time that your buyer is actually connecting with you in a way that's really easy to track and talking to your sellers, they're seventy percent of the way through their decision making journey. So there is a vast top of funnel that is nonlinear, that I see as a a really big marketing challenge. And in the last few years, we've seen a lot of pressure around that area because it's the hardest to justify, to track, and, attribution is is tricky, there.
 
So I think, you know, I have a lot of opinions around, how you get buy in for top of funnel work at the very top of the funnel and, and how to go in as a CMO or a marketer and make the case for a longer time horizon investing and things that are gonna help you to, become top of mind and in the consideration set by the time seventy percent later that someone's engaging to raise their hand with you.
 
And I think the the first step for all of these stages is that you're in lockstep with your sales team or the marketer and and your customer success leader around and and your business leadership team as a whole. What does good look like? Who are our customers? What is our ICP? Who are we targeting?
 
What does each each stage of the the buyer journey that we can track look like, and how do we define those handoffs with one another?
 
Because if you don't have that really clear, you're gonna struggle consistently at each, conversion from, like, top to mid to bottom of funnel.
 
And the way that we do marketing, we stretch very far.
 
So we're not just top of funnel or mid funnel.
 
Marketing at Sendoso is responsible for retention and expansion and bringing the right customers in the door, making sure they're healthy and they're using our integrations. They're using HubSpot. They're using Sixense. They're using everything that could possibly make them successful, and they're growing alongside us. So I think the more you can bring those teams together and think about, okay, who are we targeting?
 
What are their pain points? What do they care about? What is that top of funnel message that aligns with just them and what they're experiencing as a human being and and their business challenges? And then mid funnel, what value do we add? How do we address those those pain points? How do we interact once they're getting closer to engaging with us? And then bottom of funnel, how do we tag team to make sure that experience is delightful, swift?
 
You know, they're getting everything they could possibly get, and we've multi threaded enough that it's, it's very clear with the buying committee what they need, and we can onboard them really successfully.
 
So I think about it really holistically.
 
I'm happy to answer, like, more tactical questions too, but that's my strategic Yeah. Answer.

Chapter
Collaboration Between Marketing and Sales

 
When you get to that part of the sales process where you're transitioning from marketing to sales, what are some of the key things to keep in mind that the sales team can think about when you're making that pass off.
 
I would even say, Casey, because just in regards to what you just shared, like, maybe there you don't believe in a handoff, and there's more of, like, that full Yeah. Local collaboration. So if again, depend curious your thoughts and, like, how the two teams could work effectively together if there's less of a handoff or even if there is.
 
We're highly collaborative, so there's less of a handoff from marketing to sales, and we step out of the picture.
 
It's our job in my mind to make sure that, we are top of mind when someone's ready to buy. They're well informed. And by the time they get to sales, they have a pretty clear idea about why they're raising their hand. But it's also our job to partner with sales to make sure that, that our sales team is equipped to have consultative conversations, that they, understand everything we could possibly gather to inform them about that prospect who's using their hand, and that they have the materials, the case studies, the data, whatever they need, to back up, the value that we can add. For us, it's not a baton pass. It's much more of, of an account based, partnership where, we have executive sponsors involved. We have marketing involved from from the very beginning, and then we actually have sales involved, oftentimes before someone raises their hand from a BDR standpoint.
 
BDRs sit with marketing, at Sendoso. I know they sit with sales and a lot of other companies, but we're we're very tightly triangulated between sales, marketing, and BDR team in terms of, what are the collective actions that we can take, across the buying journey that we see providing lift and accelerating a deal or helping us to multithread and forge more connections? So we're looking at account influence together. We're reporting on that weekly together.
 
We're looking at strategic accounts and, you know, like, what has each team, done or what could we do to to impact that deal? And once someone raises their hand, I actually oftentimes and and my team stay heavily involved because, we're the type of person that we're selling to. Right? We're marketers, and so they they oftentimes have questions.
 
We jump on for for questions about specific use cases. We talk through ABM, or outbound automation or, how you would use our different integrations, how we, you know, we drink our own champagne at Sandoso.
 
So so there's not a really there's not really like a, here you go by. You know, it's it's more that we're we're staying heavily involved, and then we also do customer marketing. So once they, you know, transfer over to the CX team, we're also helping with onboarding and education and events and and that kind of stuff.
 
I like that you drink your own champagne. It it it's such it's so much more positive than drinking the own Kool Aid.
 
Yes.
 
If you have a specific anecdote at Sendoso where you where the sales and marketing team came together to work either on a particular project, a you know, some some level of success that you saw that, you thought would be, like, a great teaching lesson.

Chapter
Success Story: HubSpot Integration

 
Yeah. I didn't just pick this one because you're here, Ron, but it's actually a really recent success story for us. So, I haven't mentioned product yet, but I think product plays just an absolutely critical role in mark marketing's ability to be successful.
 
And we have a a product we have an r and d team that works really tightly with marketing and sales, and talks to our customers consistently. And one of our biggest wins this last quarter, where we had a record breaking quarter, was our product team coming to sales and marketing and talking to our customers and understanding that really supercharging our HubSpot integration would be a superpower for our customers and also help bolster, sales and marketing, goals. And so they worked hard to fast track that, And then we worked really closely with sales and CX and product, and we're able to partner with HubSpot for HubSpot inbound to really highlight the power of that integration for our customers and the use cases and the value, and the ways that you could, use HubSpot and various other tools in your stack and Sendoso, to accelerate meetings and pipeline and revenue. And this was a multifaceted you know, we had a booth. We, we created playbooks.
 
We, had workshops. We had our partner team working with HubSpot agencies.
 
And so what ended up coming out of that was just these incredibly and these were not boost scams. These were, like, deep conversations we had had that turned into hundreds of thousands of dollars of pipeline and then converted into revenue. Still converting, by the way. Like, we're still bringing in deals that are they're probably gonna come in this quarter and next quarter from this.
 
So this is the way I think. It's a it's it's, like, not just a you know, we could have just announced, you know, on a LinkedIn post. We have a HubSpot integration. Yay. You know? And, like, put out the playbook.
 
But we like to go way deeper and and see how we can, actually connect on a personal level and in person where we can with folks and bring our partners into it with us.
 
Being able to have an integration with a company like HubSpot, obviously, is amazing.
 
Is there any advice you would give to, like, a startup or a founder that would want to have that kind of, relationship with a company or a tech company like like a HubSpot or or a LinkedIn?
 
Is it because you'd already send those had already established itself in the industry that you were able to do that?
 
Is there any type of grassroots work a a a founder or a business can do in order to make those kind of connections? I wonder if you have any thoughts or insights about that.
 
That's such a good question.

Chapter
Building Brand Relationships

Yes. I this is so relevant to my interest. So I am very passionate about the power of investing in brand.
 
And for us over the last year, when I started at Sendoso, we started pretty heavily investing in organic LinkedIn.
 
I started posting, really consistently. Our entire executive team and and marketing team and our product leader, started posting regularly. And we all gathered around certain topics that we felt would be relevant for, both inauthentic to us and to Sendoso and, to the folks that, comprise each of our sort of networks and communities.
 
And, that's really hard to measure, and it's, not something that immediately drives leading the pipeline.
 
But we invested there. We invested in in some brand campaigns that were really creative that showed off the power of direct mail in Sendoso and also were sort of the way that we're hoping to inspire best in class marketing, across our industry. And, and we really invested a lot of time in becoming a credible source and example, for and of marketing over the last year. And so I think, you know, I've benefited from Sendoso being a a pretty well known name. But over the last year, we've become, a really, sort of knit in part of our our marketing and go to market community. And, and I've gained a a community and a network that's much larger than when I started.
 
And I think if you're looking for where to start, start there. Start contributing back and start, adding value and not expecting anything back and not doing it in a transact transactional manner.
 
Just look at what people are interested in and what they're engaging with, and your post will help guide you on where you're resonating with people. I think that's a good place to start. And then I'd also say follow you know, if you're wanting to partner with certain brands or partners, follow them, engage with them, comment on their stuff, look at what intrigues them, look at their business challenges, and try to understand their goals for the next year.
 
We actually have a similar partnership to HubSpot with Sixense where we're looking at how could we, join our platforms together and use their conversational email and and, all of the amazing product releases that Six Senses coming out with. How do we integrate, Sendoso and our I our AI, augmented features and our smartsends, with Six Senses so that there's this sort of, like, supercharged, like, intent signal and conversational email that's written and everything is personalized along with a personalized gift, and it can be automated end to end.
 
Well, I came up with that idea. I'm not a product person, but I came up with the idea by looking at their talks and what what Sixense was talking about and what Latine and and Sima and and Carrie and all of them are talking about.
 
And, I am privileged, like, that you know, I know some of them well enough that I was able to get on the phone with sixth sense because we're we're buddies. But, I think if you're not looking at how to position where you might fit into and bolster and boost another company or an agency's, goals and their sort of pillars that that they're aiming for in the next year, it's gonna be harder for you to to convince them that it's worth slowing down or incorporating you into their plans.
 
And that's that's worked really well for us as we think about why would we even build an integration in the first place. It has to have a really solid storyline around it.

Chapter
Lessons Learned in Marketing

Casey, I'd love to hear perhaps a learning experience from your past roles or even your time at Sendoso that, I guess, helped you or made a profound change on the way you're doing things now. Because, obviously, you have such great insights and perspective.
 
Curious maybe what, again, you learn from, in past experiences that kind of helped you get to this point.
 
I've been really very lucky, in my, in my career to report to people who gave me very candid, well intentioned feedback.
 
And, and I've learned from a a lot of it across, all of the different roles I've been in, and I have that now as well.
 
Like, they say, you know, you pick the leader.
 
And and I'm very particular about the folks that I'll report to because I wanna make sure I can learn and be inspired and grow and, and get that kind of feedback.

Chapter
Overcoming Self-Doubt in Marketing

 
But I think, you know, for a long time as I was trying to sort of prove that, I was worthy and, and to work my way up a a ladder, I was thinking about things from a perspective, that may not have been as constructive. And I think a lot of marketers get, boxed into corners this because they commit to things, hoping that if they just say yes, that that it will prove their worth and that they'll be taken more seriously.

Chapter
Challenges of Marketing Attribution

 
And I think one of the most difficult things for us is is this constant expectation that marketing should be able to validate every single thing we do even when it's in sort of the dark funnel and it's difficult to track.
 
And I think also marketers sometimes feel forced to sign up for goals that are unrealistic or sign up to to attribution models that are gonna actually, make it very difficult for for us to be successful. And so I think the biggest thing I've learned over time is that I have to stand up for myself, my team, and the way I know we should be doing things, from the very beginning, and I cannot take a role unless that's something that I know and I'm confident, you know, my leadership team is gonna support. And when I came into Sendoso, I completely ripped out the entire all of our tracking. I re I we cleaned and redid all of our data and all of our stage, stages in the sales cycle. And we we moved the entire goal post, from MQL to sales qualified pipeline.

Chapter
Transforming Tracking and Goals

 
And I did that because it was the only way that I thought we could have a trusting, successful relationship across our revenue team, and because we wanted to deliver quality, not just numbers.
 
And, in past roles, I've been scared to do that. You know? And as I was as I was learning and growing, I I signed up for things I couldn't deliver, and I failed, and I failed my team.
 
So I really hope that more of us can can stand up for doing things in ways that we know are right and then and learn to speak the language, and to advocate and bring in our CFO and CEO with us and show them how this works, and and, like, how long it might take sometimes for the for the payoff to come, but how maybe, you know, investing in brand will, ultimately lift your outbound, results, which has happened at Sendoso for us. We were feeling it outbound. We invested in brand brand. They're warmer calls now. It took time. If I had been measured on that three weeks later or a month later, I would have been fired. Right?

Chapter
The Value of Patience in Marketing Success


But I held the line, and I held the line through some pressure. And we got to a place where we had a record breaking quarter, two quarters in a row for the last couple quarters. So I think marketers need to support each other in this.
 
And and, also, if anyone needs support, I am happy to give it.
 
She'll accept your LinkedIn connection request right away saying, wow.
 
Great.