Featured snippets are taking over search results and creating new competition to rank in position zero. In this episode, Jorie and Matt explain what featured snippets are, why they matter, and how to create content that’s optimized for them. They also talk about the ripple effect featured snippets have had on how the web works and what it means for the future of SEO.
Matt Howells-Barby Hi. I'm Matthew Howells-Barby.
Jorie Munroe: Hi. I'm Jorie Munroe.
Matt Howells-Barby This is Skill Up. Skill Up is a podcast sponsored by HubSpot Academy that's all about the change in
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Matt Howells-Barby Hi Jorie. I'm excited to be back. How are you doing?
Jorie Munroe: I'm doing great. And I'm happy to be back too, but to be honest, I'm not sure what to think about this topic, honestly. [00:02:00] I've seen these boxes and it seems so random what gets pulled into them, but let's start with the basics. What in the world is a featured snippet?
Matt Howells-Barby A featured snippets, a lot of people may know it as a quick answer box. Usually appears to basically give the answer to a search query directly within the search engine results page. So you don't even need to go to the webpage in some cases to get the answer.
Jorie Munroe: [00:02:30] What exactly does this look like?
Matt Howells-Barby Let's start with an example. You can try searching for, "How to tie a tie." What you'll see in that result is step-by-step instruction directly at the top of the search results page that shows you how to tie a tie. You'll probably also see a little box which is "People also asked," and this has a few different extra questions on top of that that people [00:03:00] are often asking. Typically you'll find this on a lot of queries where you have how, what, why, when, who at the start of it. There's a lot of different ways that these can be viewed in, or at least presented in, should I say. That's probably the most common way to see them, is this step-by-step guide. Then you also have just some straight-up paragraphs, which we'll come onto probably a little [00:03:30] later.
Jorie Munroe: People don't have to actually click on a link to a webpage to view the information, right?
Matt Howells-Barby No, not necessarily. When featured snippets first came about, everybody was freaking out. It was like, "All right, well so no one's ever going to visit webpages again. Google's going to serve information and just people are going to stay in the search results." Everyone's like, "Ah! It's going to affect traffic, huge, huge amounts," but that wasn't necessarily the case. You can [00:04:00] sometimes get the answer you need and in all honesty, this usually happens for more definitions or queries that start with, "What is a ..." That's where you may just be looking for a very quick answer. You may not need to actually visit them on the webpage themselves.
That said, this type of result is growing a lot. It's like over 30% of searches [00:04:30] now include this kind of result in them, and for different queries, it definitely is affecting, impacting traffic overall to websites. Some have a situation where actually if they were ranking in the featured snippet, they're getting way more traffic than what they were when they were actually
Jorie Munroe: This is great and all, but I feel like there would be a pretty big problem here. You can get your answers right in the results, but who's even clicking on those links anymore?
Matt Howells-Barby I think that's a fair point, but for a lot of times, there's just many queries need way more than just a few words. Typically the more specific you're going, the more detailed an answer. [00:05:30] A lot of featured snippets started initially showing for things like recipes and stuff like that. Really you would, Google's got a lot better at displaying some of these, because sometimes you just have jumbled-up information on this little featured snippet. I do think for really simple information, featured snippets can be really valuable. Like for example, if you're searching for the age of a well-known celebrity or something, or you're looking for the quick [00:06:00] definition of a word. Those kind of things where you don't need to dig much deeper. You're literally looking for an answer that could be answered within a sentence.
A lot of the time, the classic stuff that would rank for that in the past would just be, you'd go through to a quick Wikipedia article or a wikiHow article. And even then, it would just be a few lines of information. You probably didn't need that click. That said, there is a lot of debate around the fact that should [00:06:30] Google be actually even pulling in this information that they technically don't own, and displaying it without giving that traffic to the people who publish content? Because for a lot of content producers, especially those that really, really care about driving traffic to their site, they're generating advertising revenue. They no longer advertising revenue or any other way of monetizing their traffic if people aren't coming through to their site in the first place. That [00:07:00] is a bit of a challenge there.
Jorie Munroe: Is this even just a traffic problem that's unique to just Google, or is this the way the internet is just going now as it's optimizing for user experience?
Matt Howells-Barby That's a good question. Featured snippets are pretty much isolated to Google. Bing
Jorie Munroe: Oh, Bing.
Matt Howells-Barby Bing is still a [thing 00:07:25]. It's still alive. I haven't personally used [00:07:30] Bing, probably ever, on a consistent basis. But they have been adding in a bunch more stuff like that. One thing where actually Microsoft
We're already starting to see in some respects, a lot of content that ranks in the featured snippet also ranks in voice search in Google Assistant. [00:08:30] There are clear parallels being drawn there. I would imagine that because of the fact that we had initially a huge shift towards mobile, maybe around the 2010 mark, where we started to see that huge inflection point of growth, this is where a lot of the major search engines in particular. The likes of Google were starting to place more of an emphasis on concision in their results, so we're only going to see more of it.
Jorie Munroe: Interesting. [00:09:00] It's definitely just that next stage of search engine
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Jorie Munroe: [00:10:00] Hi everyone, welcome back. Matt, are featured snippets actually destroying some businesses?
Matt Howells-Barby There's definitely-
Jorie Munroe: You hesitated. Okay, well, let's dig in.
Matt Howells-Barby I was being generous to Google, I think. I think
We talked about, in the previous episode, blended search results. To summarize that, where we're seeing image carousels, video carousels, all of these different features that [00:11:00] are coming into the search results page. The exact same thing and the most traumatic thing, certainly, that we've seen probably in the past 10 years has been how much emphasis Google's put on ads in the search results page. Ads have been taking up more and more and more real estate. I think it was two or three years ago now where what we saw was that there
Now featured snippets, for some businesses, this may be the final nail in the coffin. But in other respects, it also presents an opportunity. Now featured snippets offered a way for people to rank for queries where a lot of the time, it was [00:12:00] just very commercial content a lot of the time. Whereas with featured snippets, what we find is actually it's usually less product-driven content that ends up
Jorie Munroe: Interesting.
Matt Howells-Barby With every threat, there's an equal opportunity there. But the same point, this is something where Google, in the exact same respect as Facebook, wants to keep you in Google, or Facebook wants to keep you within Facebook. We saw that with Facebook's instant articles where they wanted [00:12:30] to host content directly native within Facebook. Google creating AMP and building a whole platform where you would host your content within Google. A lot of the emphasis from Google and Facebook's side has been, "We want to provide a better user experience. We want to deliver things faster and quicker and improve the mobile web experience."
The subtext to that is, "We also want to generate a hell of a lot more ad revenue." I think this is a situation-
Jorie Munroe: Not completely altruistic.
Matt Howells-Barby [00:13:00] I am not the one to judge that, but for sure, that's a big motivating factor here. They're for-profit businesses. Thinking about that and in the context of are they destroying some businesses? Yeah, potentially. They're also probably offering whole new opportunities for other businesses to come in. SEO is notorious for from one moment, giving you this amazing opportunity, and in the next, taking everything from you. It's like a cruel, [00:13:30] bad, Christmas gift. But the whole point of SEO to constantly be managing and staying ahead of risk. Things like featured snippets are another one of those things that you have to stay on top of and adapt to as early as possible.
Jorie Munroe: Should we expect to see a decrease in traffic due to featured snippets overall?
Matt Howells-Barby Not necessarily. This is my favorite and most generic answer in SEO is, it depends.
Jorie Munroe: Nice.
Matt Howells-Barby [00:14:00] This is probably the most-used phrase in SEO, and it's probably the most frustrating answer to get. We did some studies at HubSpot. This was I think the first one we published was back in 2015, 2016, when we really saw our first huge spike in featured snippets entering into the results page. In fact, around that time for our blog
Now our worry was, even if we rank in these featured snippets, are we going to see lower returns on traffic? Now what actually transpired is that across the board, overall, we saw more traffic when we ranked in the featured snippet than we did [00:15:00] ranking number one in a search results page that didn't trigger a featured snippet. Now bear in mind, the kind of content that we are ranking for at HubSpot in a lot of those featured snippets, I would class as the more tutorial-driven content. Informational stuff that would be like-
Jorie Munroe: How to write a blog post.
Matt Howells-Barby Exactly. You saved me from really coming up with a terrible idea there. It's very difficult to figure out in a featured snippet in what? Like 50 [00:15:30] characters or whatever it is, like how to write a whole blog post. What you will get from a featured snippet result there is validation that this is probably a relevant thing that you want to look at. Whereas before, you just had to judge on the title of the page, the meta description, and what that meant was you would get a higher distribution of clicks going to results number one, two, three. We call this in SEO, pogo-sticking. This happens a lot within more commercial, product- [00:16:00] driven queries, and you'll do this yourself. You're looking for a new t-shirt, and you search
Jorie Munroe: White t-shirt.
Matt Howells-Barby Right, like everyone does. Red t-shirt, please. Maybe Mark Zuckerberg gray t-shirt. You'd open up in new tabs like 10 different results. That happened to a lesser extent for more informational queries, but now you don't need to do that. You've immediately figured out, " [00:16:30] All right, this is definitely what I need to know. I'm just going to go and click into that." We saw a lot of the time, I actually remember off the top of my head a few stats that started standing out for us where we would usually see, for ranking number one for some of these type queries, click-through rates from the results page in the range of, say, 15 to 20 to 23%. We were seeing in excess of 40% click-through rate. Immediately we were getting really [00:17:00] nice, big boost in traffic.
Now if you are someone like wikiHow who produces a lot of content that's more definition-based, very short tutorials where you literally only need like How To Retweet, it's like you can find that out in a very short amount of characters. I would imagine for a decent section of their site, they would see a reduction in what they had before. Whereas the probably the biggest winner [00:17:30] of the whole featured snippet implementation has probably been Wikipedia,
Jorie Munroe: Wow.
Matt Howells-Barby Which is crazy. That distribution I think has definitely diluted out a little bit, but if you look on any blog post that's done a featured snippet study, nearly every single one has an asterisk and it's like an omission. "We've taken Wikipedia [00:18:00] out because it's just all Wikipedia otherwise." That's another big piece in amongst all this.
Jorie Munroe: Position zero, or the featured snippet, might mean more
Matt Howells-Barby All right, we're into the good stuff.
Jorie Munroe: Let's go.
Matt Howells-Barby Good stuff now, all right.
Jorie Munroe: Into the trenches.
Matt Howells-Barby This is what everyone's been waiting for. We've been doing a ton of testing here. I remember myself and Victor Pan, [00:18:30] I had [Evesio 00:18:31] here at HubSpot. We were scratching our brains for far too long, trying to figure out what are the factors behind featured snippets? We initially thought, "Well this is just all going to be based around backlinks." Like pretty much the rest of Google search, backlinks are the biggest ranking factor of anything. One thing that we then found surprising was actually, [00:19:00] you usually need to be ranking on page one to begin with to get the featured snippet. Albeit not even in the top three. We found a lot of times that our organic listing would be five or six on page one, and we were still ranking in the featured snippet. But, what we did find is that actually just firing a ton more backlinks from other websites into the page was not helping us rank in the snippet.
So then we moved on to some other things and we were like, " [00:19:30] Okay, well, in eCommerce, having schema data," so this is a type of markup code where you'll sometimes see when you search for products like the red t-shit, or the Zuckerberg gray t-shirt. It's like you have review stars showing in. Sometimes you'll see the price. These things are specific bits of code that are put onto the product pages that tell Google how many reviews you have, how many price. We were thinking, "Hmm, maybe there is like it's pulling in schema data." So we tried a load [00:20:00] of stuff, this market code. Nope. Complete waste of our time. Well not a complete waste, because we found out, like we often do, how not to do it. That brought us down a path of how we could do things.
The first thing that we did find was how many different formats there were. That was the starting point with featured snippets, is knowing what are the different types.
Jorie Munroe: What are the different formats for featured snippets?
Matt Howells-Barby I really teed you up [00:20:30] there, didn't I?
Jorie Munroe: Yes you did, brilliant.
Matt Howells-Barby Sometimes there's these random outliers that you see, but I would pretty much say there
Jorie Munroe: That aligns with those how-to articles?
Matt Howells-Barby Absolutely.
Jorie Munroe: Got you.
Matt Howells-Barby Then a very similar one for this is a bullet point list. Pretty much the exact same, but instead of one, two, three, four, you just got sets of bullet points.
Jorie Munroe: Almost like a listicle.
Matt Howells-Barby Exactly. And in that respect, [00:21:30] I think one
Jorie Munroe: I'll take your word for that one.
Matt Howells-Barby I haven't searched this. People tell me these things that go to the gym. Then we have the table format. This one is a lot rarer, and it's for very specific types of content. This is usually like a data table, and will often pull in from existing tables [00:22:00] on a page. Sometimes Google is really good with this actually, and they can determine
Jorie Munroe: All the time.
Matt Howells-Barby Then there are paragraph snippets. This one is probably where everything started with featured snippets. [00:22:30] I think this is the first and most popular featured snippet I saw at the beginning, was just single paragraphs. They usually about three
Jorie Munroe: Are the translation services that you'll also see sometimes considered a featured snippet? Or is that a little bit different?
Matt Howells-Barby That would be different. It sits in the same spot. Really there's a lot of [00:23:30] different information, so technically if you search the word "define:" and then write a word, that is technically not a featured snippet. That actually had been around long before featured
Jorie Munroe: It's really important to know what you're looking at, so let's say I have a bunch of pages ranking on the first
Matt Howells-Barby Well
Jorie Munroe: Okay, I took step one.
Matt Howells-Barby You're a fraud.
Jorie Munroe: Okay, whoa.
Matt Howells-Barby I think the biggest thing, and this comes into what we've found out about ranking in the featured snippet. [00:24:30] I still haven't made my mind up whether this is a good thing or a bad thing. But it's actually quite basic, the way Google determines what goes in the featured snippet. It means it does level the playing field a little bit, but at the same time, the SEO inside me wants there to be a way that can be manipulated in some way that we can gain an advantage. But really it comes down to two things, and they're quite intertwined.
First of all, [00:25:00] you need to, and this is really the most important piece, is having the content on the page that you want
Now the other thing in amongst all of this, because we're going to come on, dig into some of the formatting pieces shortly. But the biggest piece to understand about all this
Jorie Munroe: Not so great.
Matt Howells-Barby Not so great! The reason why that would happen, because you haven't changed your content. You formatted it in the exact same way. The reason is that people might be looking through at what's coming through in the featured snippet and [00:26:30] they actually may look at it and go, "Actually, that's not answering my query, so I'm not going to click on the featured snippet." The positions one, two, three, and four, if they're getting quite a large proportional click-through rate, that's data that's going to go straight back to Google. And then algorithmically they would say, "Well clearly this is not hitting the spot for people. We should move something else in there." If that has a better click-through rate, that's going to do a better job at ranking in the featured snippet.
Similarly, if people say, "Oh, [00:27:00] look, what's pulling through in this featured snippet is definitely going to be the right thing that I want." I'm going to click this link, I'm going to come through it, and then all of a sudden I'm like, "Wait. This is all
Having someone click on your result from Google and then pressing the back button is probably the worst outcome for any SEO. It's like the strongest negative signal [00:27:30] that can be pushed back to Google, and they track this directly. Get enough of that, and what you'll start seeing is you will very quickly start not only dropping out of featured
Jorie Munroe: That makes a lot of sense. Quickly or maybe not so quickly, let's dig into the paragraph snippet specifically. Say [00:28:00] I'm trying to rank for, "What is conversion rate optimization?" Or something crazy like that, that might be related to my job. Are there any best practices I should know about?
Matt Howells-Barby Yeah. I would say bearing in mind what I just said around intent, you really want to validate that as soon as someone comes onto your webpage, they're seeing the thing that they saw in the featured snippet as quickly as possible. This also coincides with ranking more effectively in the featured [00:28:30] snippet. Having this piece of information that you want to be in the featured snippet, placing it high up on the page.
The first thing that I would recommend doing is basically structuring a small section of the page where you have
Then underneath it is when you can go through and start writing the rest of the article, really thinking about, "If someone's coming through,
Jorie Munroe: Awesome. That's actually really helpful. I'm writing a blog post today so I will keep that in mind. What about lists specifically?
Matt Howells-Barby [00:30:00] For lists, this is slightly different beast. There's two ways that you can do this. One, and we've seen Google tend to favor one over the other in a relatively inconsistent way. I think what I would say is Google's getting much better at being able to pull in these list-based featured snippets without you having to specifically call it out on the page. But one of the things that you can do to begin with [00:30:30] is, if you have your article already broken down into step one, step two, step three, is making sure that you have these identifiers at the start of each of your ... Whether it's like your H2 or your H3s, that break down the steps. Literally at the start of them, write, "Step one." And then you could have colon and then the heading title. Google will pull in those heading titles one after the other, so step one, step two, step three, step four. You can have that broken down.
[00:31:00] The other way that you can do that is you can just in a similar way that you would do with the paragraph type snippet is near the top you have the overall query that's being asked. That might be, "How to tie a tie." Then you literally put bullet points directly under it, one after the other, and they're just concise, quick, step one, step two, step three, step four. Can't remember the last time I tied up a tie, so I'm not going to even attempt to do that one. Then have everything in more detail [00:31:30] broken down afterwards.
Jorie Munroe: It's also about iteration over time. That's great. It sounds like I need to go back and optimize my content, but this is a pretty big job. Will it really make a difference when it comes to traffic?
Matt Howells-Barby I would almost guarantee that it will. If you have a lot of informational [00:32:00] content and that is that you have a lot of topics that you're trying to rank for where people are searching for detailed questions about that topic. Anything marketing-related for HubSpot, people are searching for the why, the what, the who, the when, the how of a whole topic, those are the types or queries that if you just see a percentage of the featured snippets that you go after increase, you're going to see [00:32:30] huge gains in your overall organic traffic as a result. We've really doubled down at HubSpot on featured snippets, and what we've started to see is with having a set process in place that we can bake into content from the beginning, as opposed to consistently pushing out content then
I mentioned that we did a study a little while back at HubSpot. Within this study, we looked at just under 5,000 different search queries, all of which triggering featured snippets. When we analyzed the click-through rate for HubSpot content that went from not having the featured snippet to then gaining the featured snippet, [00:33:30] we saw that some high volume keywords increased by as much as over 114%, which is pretty significant, I would say.
Jorie Munroe: Just a little bit. Just a little. It sounds like snippets are taking over. What do you think the endgame is for Google here?
Matt Howells-Barby Like with a lot of Google's Plays recently, I think that key is two-fold. One [00:34:00] is that they're using featured snippets in particular as a platform for them to develop better and stronger natural language processing. Which ultimately is really going to help their Google Home product. The second thing is-
Jorie Munroe: I swear we're not getting sponsored by Google.
Matt Howells-Barby Yet. Yet!
Jorie Munroe: Yet! Episode three, we come in with Google swag.
Matt Howells-Barby Well Amazon [00:34:30] are going to have to fight it out [with them, right? 00:34:32]
Jorie Munroe: Duke it out.
Matt Howells-Barby And maybe Bing.
Jorie Munroe: Probably not, after what you said.
Matt Howells-Barby Oh, Cortana. I don't think they're going to be that happy. Then the second thing is going to be ad revenue. The longer that you can keep people engaged on Google's page, and also the more that users come to expect the answer
With featured snippets coming in, and then you're seeing a lot of more blended search results, we see a lot more carousels coming in. The lines between [00:35:30] what is an ad, what is not an ad, becomes blurred. I think what we will start to see in the future is more ad content starting to look like featured snippets, which is a very dangerous path to start going down. I also believe with voice, what we may find is that we will start having sponsored results in voice.
Jorie Munroe: Do you think that having ads sneak in and start to resemble pieces that traditionally people could trust as informational content will at all impact the trust users place in
Matt Howells-Barby I hope so. Because I think it's actually a pretty tragic trend to start [00:36:30] seeing for the web, where ultimately, what Google has also done a lot over the past five years has been highlighting the fact that things are ads a lot less. It used to be very, very obvious that things were ads. Then we start to see this whole new labeling come in that's a lot more subtle. Especially on mobile devices, it can be difficult to see. When we start seeing this almost blended-in [00:37:00] into patterns of design that we've already come to trust that are not ad content, if we do start to see that, I think it can be incredibly detrimental.
Now Google is also full of a lot of very intelligent people, so I'm sure they'll be approaching anything like this with a lot of caution. I'm really interested to see how things happen with voice, and beyond. Like we haven't talked about where I think a lot of
Jorie Munroe: [crosstalk 00:38:03].
Matt Howells-Barby Cambridge Analytics and everything that's happening in amongst that.
Jorie Munroe: It sounds like dark patterns just inherently.
Matt Howells-Barby Yes! Right.
Jorie Munroe: "Yes!"
Matt Howells-Barby Yes!
Jorie Munroe: It is.
Matt Howells-Barby It is exactly that.
Jorie Munroe: [inaudible 00:38:13].
Matt Howells-Barby I think it is a slippery slope, but it's not all doom and gloom. To bring this back to featured snippets and one of the questions you asked earlier is, "Is it killing businesses?"
Jorie Munroe: Destroying. I said destroying.
Matt Howells-Barby Killing, murdering [00:38:30] businesses
Also there's been a lot of varying results from this, but honestly, like as a listener to this podcast, I would say the first thing that you're really going to want to start doing is having a look at [00:39:30] how much of the content that you currently have ranking search engines
[00:40:00] Alongside all of this is testing different content formats and trying to bake in a process to any content that you put forward, moving forward so that you can just do this out the gate and start ranking quicker.
Jorie Munroe: Is there any way that as people are reformatting and paying attention to the featured snippet, that they can easily see if they're breaking into featured snippets? Or is it the Wild West of knowing what people are querying?
Matt Howells-Barby That is one of the biggest pain in the asses actually. It's [00:40:30] really difficult. I could talk about things like keyword rankings for far too long, and it would bore a lot of people. But one of the things we've seen a lot is with keyword rankings as a whole, them becoming less relevant and accurate. We talked about in Episode One, the fact that-
Jorie Munroe: Listen to it if you haven't.
Matt Howells-Barby You should absolutely have listened to it, and subscribed of course! What we've talked about in Episode One [00:41:00] was with keyword rankings for
Jorie Munroe: Right.
Matt Howells-Barby It's like they're completely different from one location to another. In the same respect, trying to figure out where are you ranking? Are you ranking this featured snippet? Albeit you don't always get that localization factor, but you certainly get it from google.com, .com.uk, mobile search versus desktop search can be a little tricky. In all honesty, [00:41:30] I think that Google and their search console product is probably going to bake in some of this into the analytics that they give. There are a few keyword tools that are starting to support some of this, but it's a bit hacky. I think in all honesty the best way is to just do a quick incognito search for what you're trying to rank for, and have a quick look and see if it's showing up in the featured snippet. It's not the most perfect way to do it, but what you will certainly see is [00:42:00] if you go into Google Search Console, you can track each page, the click-through rate on average that it has from the search results page.
Now if you start ranking in the featured snippet, you'll very quickly start to see that click-through rate percentage rise, and that's your biggest indicator of being able to see. And of course, organic traffic as well.
Jorie Munroe: Analytics is the good guy in this scenario?
Matt Howells-Barby Yeah, for now. Don't get me started on all the pain points of Analytics though. That is a whole [00:42:30] rant episode.
Jorie Munroe: Well, so this has been super interesting. Thank you
Matt Howells-Barby Of course! This has been really, really enjoyable.
Jorie Munroe: Well that's all the time we have for featured snippets. If you like today's lesson, please, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and tell your friends or coworkers about us. You can follow us on Twitter @HubSpotAcademy, and if you want more details on this topic, feel free to check out skilluppodcast.com. I'm Jorie Munroe, thank [00:43:00] you so much for listening, and thank you, Matt, again.
Matt Howells-Barby Of course, see you on the next episode.
Jorie Munroe: Thank you so much to our listeners for listening.
Advertisement: If you're listening to this show, you've already taken the first step in growing your career. But I have really good news. You can go even further, for free! HubSpot Academy is a worldwide leader in marketing and sales education, and they offer free classes on topics like social media, SEO, content marketing, and more. There's [00:43:30] no catch, just expert advice that can take your career to the next level. Go to hubspot.com/skillup to get started today, and build your business better.